Curse

coolsti · May 11, 2006, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Peewee, you just don't get it. Did I buy this game for elite missions? Why, yes, I did! Its part of the game! Just like Fow and UW are part of the game. It is poor game design to have these missions only open to players who grind, grind, grind for it. Because a lot of us do not have the time or patience for that.

And if the elite missions are considered to be something that is simply too difficult or impossible for a player like myself, then what is there left to do after reaching end game? Fighting factions battles to help the Luzons or Kurzics makes no sense if there is no attainable reward, is there?

I don't complain about GW like many other posters; I enjoy this game immensely and think a lot of the redesigns and nerfs underway were justified to make better game play. But it looks like this time someone at Anet may have let their imagination get away from them a bit, heh heh.

GranDeWun · May 11, 2006, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Disclaimer: Many other similar post & threads
I'm not too worked up about the elite missions, but the requirements for holding towns seems all wrong to me. The name of the game is Guild Wars, not Guild Farming. It should be that Kurzick Alliances fight Luxon Alliances, and control towns based on victories... the current system actually pits Kurzick against Kurzick / Luxon vs Luxon in a farming competition.

Phrozenflame · May 11, 2006, 01:47 PM // 13:47

About time ppl UP their skills and play the game.

1. As for the argument, the lame one the casual players use, you see you cant finish the Elite mission in the 'oh i got less amount of time'.

2. Casual players simply dont have enough experience and skills to play the mission anyway so please stop moaning.

The current system is fine, it gives excellent rewards for those who deserve it and allowing every tom dick and harry into the game is going to ruin the drops for those who have spent more time and effort and skills in the game.

Cheers for Anet for providing a system that generates the ZEAL in you to stop being a n00b and play the game the way its meant to be played...like the elites.

The Elite system should be accessable to only highest skilled players, in every sense, Huge Alliances mean excellend coordination and control over hundreds of members to get you the elite town.

This isnt meant for casual players, dont ruin the fun for others just becuase you want it. Cry Babies ftl.

ANET should keep the current System...You hear that Gaile?

TY

PrometheusG · May 11, 2006, 01:52 PM // 13:52

I think the underlying flaw with Elite missions is Anet's assumptions about player mentality.

We are all aware of how competitive pvp can be. You are trying to beat another human being. You must assert your dominance over others in order to win. By its very nature, pvp MUST be competitive.

Pve, on the other hand, is rarely competitive. The point is to achieve a certain goal. It could be a mission, location, quest, item, plot advancement, skill, etc...Although the goal can be difficult to achieve, rarely is there competition with another player to achieve that goal.

These conditions have bred two very different types of gamers. Pvp gamers who love competion and pve gamers who love non-competitive, goal-oriented gameplay. With Elite Missions, Anet has introduced HIGHLY competitive gameplay into the pve environment. This means most of the non-competitive pve gamers are S.O.L.

It's not an issue of grind. I'm sure many pve players would grind day and night to achieve some goal (FoW armor, for example). I'm willing to bet they would form guilds and alliances to farm faction in order to have access to elite missions...As long as they weren't competing with other people to get it. That's the problem. Having to compete with other people to get access to content is foreign to most pve players and they are crying foul. They aren't willing to do it.

Whether this is what Anet envisioned, we don't know. But we do know most pve players don't like it. I'm not suggesting they change it to a non-competitive form, but they could implement some tweaks to make it non-monopolized.

Macktar Wang · May 11, 2006, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phrozenflame

About time ppl UP their skills and play the game.

1. As for the argument, the lame one the casual players use, you see you cant finish the Elite mission in the 'oh i got less amount of time'.

2. Casual players simply dont have enough experience and skills to play the mission anyway so please stop moaning.

The current system is fine, it gives excellent rewards for those who deserve it and allowing every tom dick and harry into the game is going to ruin the drops for those who have spent more time and effort and skills in the game.

Cheers for Anet for providing a system that generates the ZEAL in you to stop being a n00b and play the game the way its meant to be played...like the elites.

The Elite system should be accessable to only highest skilled players, in every sense, Huge Alliances mean excellend coordination and control over hundreds of members to get you the elite town.

This isnt meant for casual players, dont ruin the fun for others just becuase you want it. Cry Babies ftl.

ANET should keep the current System...You hear that Gaile?

TY

Spoken like a true elitist. I fail to see how mass-farming is in any way SKILLED. Is farming trolls in the Forge area skilled? Is farming minos in Elona skilled? Was griffon farming skilled? No, not in any way is that skilled. The only skill involved was on the ones who originally designed the build. Any idiot can farm those monsters, just like any idiot can farm faction. Does that make them more skilled than everyone else?
Casual players don't have enough skill to play these missions? Are you kidding me? I know casual players that hold halls. Hmmm. I guess winning favor is effortless too.
Your other point shows your main concern in-game: money. "Don't let everyone in. They will all farm the mission and make my Zodiac weapons worthless." As I said, spoken like a true elitist.

Use of the word "noob," let alone the "n00b" format = insta-fail. Get off your high-horse.

Senator Tom · May 11, 2006, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macktar Wang

Congratulations?

I don't get what you are saying. So you are on for about 6-9 hours during the week (your numbers). Does that mean everyone in the Cavalon Alliance is? How many people are in the alliance? Just because you play only a limited amount of time, all of a sudden overtaking Cavalon is easy?

Here's an idea, since you are so good. Leave your Alliance. Start a new guild, then a new alliance. With your newly built alliance, take over Cavalon. Then, post up that you have done it. Only then will I see that it is actually possible to overtake a holding alliance.

well if you had read the quote above me, you would have understood my reason for posting that. ok lets see here to take over cavalon youd need about 4.5 mil (last night at least). if you have 100 people who can make 10k an hour for 2 hours, thats 2 mil right there. the problem is that the people in the cavalon guild are going at the same rate, so i see what you are saying, it would be near impossible to do, quickly at least. but this game has only been out for near a month. blackblades wont have cavalon forever...maybe

edit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macktar Wang

The only skill involved was on the ones who originally designed the build.

well...wasnt that the Black Blades alliance who originally designed the build and where to do it?

Macktar Wang · May 11, 2006, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Tom

well if you had read the quote above me, you would have understood my reason for posting that. ok lets see here to take over cavalon youd need about 4.5 mil (last night at least). if you have 100 people who can make 10k an hour for 2 hours, thats 2 mil right there. the problem is that the people in the cavalon guild are going at the same rate, so i see what you are saying, it would be near impossible to do, quickly at least. but this game has only been out for near a month. blackblades wont have cavalon forever...maybe

edit
well...wasnt that the Black Blades alliance who originally designed the build and where to do it?

I did read that post, and every other post in this thread. What I am saying is that the casual player, who only has 2-3 hours a night, at best, doesn't want to log on to farm all night. I'll admit, I do my share of farming, but maybe a half hour tops, because it is extremely boring to me. I'm sure several PvE players agree. I'd rather be questing, doing missions, skill capping, helping others, or going for my explorer title. The only way that us "whiners" can take control of any city would be either hire us some bot farmers, or completely abandon the way we play the game - the way Anet originally designed the game to be (you know, their sales pitch that in this game, skill is GREATER than time played).

Macktar Wang · May 11, 2006, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Tom

edit
well...wasnt that the Black Blades alliance who originally designed the build and where to do it?

I'm going to go with no here. I bet everyone and their cousin knew about these quests during the FPE. I know I did. That, and there is no required skill setup, or a certain character class required to do these faction farming runs. It is like telling everyone in your guild to do Fires in the East over and over, and over, and over, and over...
The execution and coordination of this is impressive though. I do applaud the holding alliances for their time spent toward the cause. Our complaint is that time spent in-game does not make you elite. You want to find out who is elite? Open up the mission to everyone, and make it a time trial. Make the drops all suck, but if your team clears all floors in the alloted time, give them a perfect, rare skin weapon/item of their choice. Put actual "skill" back into it. Then we'll see who is elite.

Studio Ghibli · May 11, 2006, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Why not simply allow each Alliances to impose a tax on access to the elite mission they control?

The tax is Faction-based.

GloryFox · May 11, 2006, 02:45 PM // 14:45

I have some friends who have a small guild. 12 Members. They are casual players and enjoy GvG on weekends. They don’t care if they lose they have fun and win 50/50% of the time. They have cleared UW and FOW a few times before and had fun doing it. They remember the first time they cleared UW and FOW and how much fun it was. It took a while but they did it. They considered joining a large guild so they could compete for the elite missions in Factions. However they did not want to join a larger guild or an Alliance for several reason’s.

1 Most large guilds such as XoO will not allow GvG to their PvE players. I know I was a member of their PvE for a time. (rude arrogant controlling people IMO so I left)

2 Loss of an Identity (Capes and private TS) of who they are.

3 Loss of Leader and Officer status means they could be kicked out for not Grinding Tribute as most of the Large Guilds require.

4 Did not want to fill out an application process because it’s stupid. These are adults and don’t want to fill out an application to play a game they play on a casual basis.

5 They have real lives and don’t want to set up and manage a 90 person Guild. They just want to play with friends and family when they are online.

ANET…. This small guild makes up over 90% of your game. If you continue to snob the small time gamer you will loose in the end. DO YOU ACTUALY READ YOUR GUILD’S OF THE WEEK. MOST OF YOUR GUILDS OF THE WEEK ARE THESE KIND OF GUILDS.

master chief matt · May 11, 2006, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phrozenflame

About time ppl UP their skills and play the game.

1. As for the argument, the lame one the casual players use, you see you cant finish the Elite mission in the 'oh i got less amount of time'.

2. Casual players simply dont have enough experience and skills to play the mission anyway so please stop moaning.

What a crock of sh**! casual players have just as much skill as diehard 24/7 players. and im sure that any casual player can set aside enough time in a single night to farm tombs, or fow/uw. so dont give us any of that crap.

and for everyone that says "you bought their game, they can do whatever they want" yes i did buy this entire game, and i want a chance to explore the entire game. This game is wayyyy to short to be entertaining to anyone for long, we need elite maps to challenge us. i am bored with uw/fow, and with tombs. and since the gear nerf in sorrow furnace no one really wants anything but b/p groups, and ive been a healing monk in a b/p group in tombs, not exactly challenging or much fun.

so before you say we casual players have no skill you should just not talk and save us all the trouble of reading your trash

jackie · May 11, 2006, 03:19 PM // 15:19

For everyone saying that casual player can't finish elite missions & they are only for the Skilled über players: if one is capable of clearing FoW//UW, then Elites aren't problem at all. It's about pulling - only extra is those -4 degen rooms or so, but in the end they are just fun addition, nothing more.

I haven't done the missions yet but I've spoken with people that have & I'm quoting their comments.

If Guild Wars has to have elitism, then please lets leave it to the PvP side of the game only. I can't really see any other places where one can actually even try to say he is ELITE (Flashy phoenix) & even in PvP it's really childish to behave like that.

About lack of high-end content: I agree totally, that is a problem :/... Would be great to have dungeons/crypts/castles etc. that are situated to far corners of Cantha & there shouldn't be limits to get there. Only the challenge factor should be high. I don't see why there has to be very limited access to possibly greatest challenges of RPG.

I don't want to borrow ideas from other mmorpgs or mention them when subject is GW, but Factions/Prophecies has little high-end areas in PvE compared to some other hit mmorpgs that dominate the market. *cough*

Buoyancy · May 11, 2006, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peewee

This is how i see it. You bought this game. Did you buy it for the elite missions? no.

Of course I did. I bought it to play every single mission and quest that the game has. The advertised ability to complete the game is why Guild Wars is better than WoW.

Quote:

so what do you think gives you the right to demand access to elite missions. There is an increasingly worrying trend in gamers, especially MMOs that says 'i bought your game, i own this game, i own you.'

How is this worrying? What's worrying is the number of people that _don't_ demand this. I mean, why wouldn't you demand gameplay that's equal to, or better than, what you would find in a single player game? If a single player game wouldn't let you access areas except for arbitrarily determined times of the week, then that game would be panned by the critics.

MASQUE EYE · May 11, 2006, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Hi My Name is Masque Eye leader of Fiery Knights a medium Size PVE Guild (kurzicks) to all those who want to access the Elite Missions, my suggestion would be ask your guild leaders to join our alliance w/ us or vice versa. I am not sure how many guilds you can have in 1 alliance but if all the guilds that are unahppy combine in 1 alliance we should be able to access the elite missions. Picutre this 8 members * 5 ff quest trips (400 points each quest) would equal 16,000 faction points each trip for the entire alliance, and it only takes about 2-3 mins to finsh the quest (im sure you guys know what area im taking about) and thats only 1 group in the entire alliance, if u guys multiply that ff alliance group we would create, we can easily own House of Zu in less than a week. Now Who's with, pm me so we can get it started. Thanks.

Stockholm · May 11, 2006, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by MASQUE EYE

Hi My Name is Masque Eye leader of Fiery Knights a medium Size PVE Guild (kurzicks) to all those who want to access the Elite Missions, my suggestion would be ask your guild leaders to join our alliance w/ us or vice versa. I am not sure how many guilds you can have in 1 alliance but if all the guilds that are unahppy combine in 1 alliance we should be able to access the elite missions. Picutre this 8 members * 5 ff quest trips (400 points each quest) would equal 16,000 faction points each trip for the entire alliance, and it only takes about 2-3 mins to finsh the quest (im sure you guys know what area im taking about) and thats only 1 group in the entire alliance, if u guys multiply that ff alliance group we would create, we can easily own House of Zu in less than a week. Now Who's with, pm me so we can get it started. Thanks.

I thank you for your offer.
But it is still Grinding for something, thats the point ppl are trying to make. I'm still working on getting 10K factions so I can make friends with one side, and it's boring as hell, and the drops suck but I'm going for 10K so I can get to end mission, no way in hell am I going for 10K a day. 20k next week to keep up, 40K the week after that, 7 day's a week I have a life and a job, not realistic to get that kind of factions every day and still enjoy the game.

But THANKS for offering.

Teklord · May 11, 2006, 05:41 PM // 17:41

/agree with Stockholm

And in addtion:

Farming is *not* Elite
Farming is *not* fun for everyone (myself included)
Farming should *not* be a means to an end
Farming is defnietly not *skill*
The only reward for Farming should be completely and utterly worthless in game wealth, whether that be wealth in items or plat.

Why some people can't seem to see this is beyond my comprehension.

Control of a city should only grant the nice asthetic appeal of having your Guild's (or Alliance's) name on that city. And if access to the Elite missions were granted to all ala paid enterance fee (in likes to FoW/UW) then perhaps the city ownership could also grant free access for that Alliance as a small reward. Bottom line, Farmers should not control access to end game content.

aron searle · May 11, 2006, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackie

I don't want to borrow ideas from other mmorpgs or mention them when subject is GW, but Factions/Prophecies has little high-end areas in PvE compared to some other hit mmorpgs that dominate the market. *cough*

Bingo

As i see it ive beat the game and i have the following options.

Play it again (yea right, couldnt stand the slums the first time around)

Play PvP (now that im PvPing im finding myself very limited to what i have unlocked, so basily i have to play it more to get competative, sod that)

stop playing (to be completly honest the ONLY reason im still playing this game, is because its free, and i cant afford another game at the moment

)

UndeadRoadkill · May 11, 2006, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Notice that Gaile and Alex have taken the time to drop in several comments in recent threads, but they won't say a word on this subject.

MelechRic · May 11, 2006, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

Notice that Gaile and Alex have taken the time to drop in several comments in recent threads, but they won't say a word on this subject.

Well sometimes the music is hard to face.

master chief matt · May 11, 2006, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

Notice that Gaile and Alex have taken the time to drop in several comments in recent threads, but they won't say a word on this subject.

the fact that they wont comment either way on this subject makes me wonder if they even care at all about thier customers.